LoL players: come with your opinions

[Emperor_Quimby]

I made my 3th champion idea in league of legends, check it all out here:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/iQGEk1ru-champion-suggestion-malmer-the-mantle-miner

Maybe it could be something

[pusur44017]

My opinion is that LoL sucks, lel.

On a more serious note this looks like something you put a lot of time and effort into and the character seems fun. I have played LoL, but very little so I don't know too much about the game mechanics and I love the art you made.

-pusur

[Emperor_Quimby]

My opinion is that LoL sucks, lel.

On a more serious note this looks like something you put a lot of time and effort into and the character seems fun. I have played LoL, but very little so I don't know too much about the game mechanics and I love the art you made.

-pusur

Well good, let's play dota one day together.

[Jaysers]

... What? Why's everyone looking at me? ... OK OK FINE I'll give my two cents...


I'll break the opinion down into a couple categories: Aesthetics (art, ingame model/animations, skins, etc) and Mechanics (abilities/stats, gameplay, etc)


Aesthetics

          It's cool to see a lot of work put into this. Your art style is pretty distinct to the point where one of us would nail a drawing as "definitely your art". However what you provided... isn't enough, per se. Don't get me wrong, you've essentially drew out all the would-be animations and whatnot, but the details aren't there. What's on his back? Is it a bag of mining tools? Is it like a camping pack? Does he wear plain trousers? What kind of art style would it potentially have ingame?

          Speaking of ingame, how large will this character's model be? Will he be Teemo sized or Hecarim sized? He looks like some kind of mole, so I'd imagine not that big. As for his animations, again I like how you detailed how his abilities should look like. One small thing that gripes me is on his Q, why he digs with his hands when he has a perfectly good shovel in his pack. For his W, I could imagine seeing his weapon start glowing or, as your art portrays, showing him going berserk. It's the little things like these that make a character.

          Skins... Oh boy. One thing you could change is probably his title. Calling him a miner already reduces the skin potential he could have. You've already taken out a potential skin by the title alone. Instead, you could use something like say... Digger or Gold Enthusiast. See what I mean? Looking at the current League roster, there's hardly any champion that has their specific occupation in their title. Only few I see are ones like Yorick the Gravedigger, Draven the Glorious Executioner, Tristana the Yordle Gunner.
          Continuing on how little skin potential he has. Why do you think champions like Yorick, Trundle, Volibear, Zac, Pantheon or Leona have such small, selective skin pools? Mainly because their character concept alone isn't much to work with. Volibear is a fighting polar bear-esque creature. Not too much to work with there. Heck, 4 of his 5 skins are of him fighting in various armor. Same with Pantheon and Trundle. Just not a lot of skin variations possible. Even if some cool skin ideas are released, some just look terrible in practice.

Mechanics

This might be a long one, or short, depending on how much effort I put into this.

          Abilities... I mentioned before about how well drawn the abilities are, but let's talk about the abilities themselves. First off, Cooldowns. Some champion cooldowns are brutally long as it is, but 20+ seconds at level 1 for ANY ability? You're essentially going to turn him into a VERY passive laner and/or an auto-attack based champion. You need to give at least one of his abilities a small cooldown. Not one champion has 20+ second cooldowns for all of their abilities at level 1. Not One. Only champions I can see that comes close are Tristana and Master Yi, and they're both auto-attack based. Other champions like Blitzcrank and Thresh, even they have a sub 10 second cooldown ability. I can understand WHY you created such long cooldowns for this guy however. His toolkit is very... unique.
          Speaking of toolkit, holy f***ing crap is he both broken and underwhelming. Based damage, 27??? Yeah... Good luck trying to last hit with him. Karthus, who has almost no business autoattacking and has one of the lowest based damage level 1, has base of 45. I get the idea of him getting bonus gold and boosts from gold, but honestly, he's going to have to be a late game champion... I can't see him otherwise.
          Passive. The potential is there. I can see the inspiration coming from Thresh. Spoiler is for boring math.
[spoiler]Let's do the math. Basic Summoner's Rift starts with 475 gold (515 with masteries). That's 4.75 armor, but let's round up to make it easier. 5 armor at the start of the game, plus 20 from passive. Let's be nice and add runes and masteries. Basic tier 3 yellow runes give 9 armor. I'll add in 10 more armor from masteries assuming this champion is going defensive. In total, at level 1, he'll have 20+5+9+10 = 44 armor.

     Let's go with clothe+5pot strat, giving him 59 armor at level 1. Definitely a hefty amount. I'll also compare your champ with two other champs with different playstyle. Shen and Yasuo. One's a tank, the other is damage. If those two champs go the same route, all three will have more or less the same amount of armor at the start of the game. From here, IF the player is good at last hitting (which is still extremely difficult to achieve with this champ) and adding in Rift's Gold per 10, not including kills/assists, will make an average of 300 gold per minute. Ideally, at this rate, he'll have max passive at the 17 minute mark. No items, passive only will result in 94 armor at this time. By that time, champions will hit around level 10, 12 max. Shen, with no items, will have around 85. Yasuo with 79. Thing is, your champion is unreliable at best with his passive, so he might have around low 80's. What I'm trying to say is, other champions passively get more armor per level. Your champ makes you have to work for it pretty hard.[/spoiler]

TL;DR, if you're spot on and doing extremely well, you'd have maybe 10 more armor than a typical tank would by the time you get max stacks without buying items. However his passive is unreliable at best, meaning you'd have to put much more effort in maintaining that lead.

          Q - dig. Channel takes too long. Equivalent of Fiddlestick's ult channel time. An additional .5 second delay, even though "enemies cannot see where he pops up", is still too largely predictable to use effectively. 1.5 second channel gives the enemy player enough time to know what's happening and get to safe distance since the animation could very well give it away. As an escape tool, decent at best, but sounds typically unreliable. It's that 1.5 channeling that will get to you.

          W - Mad Mining. Basically Tristana's Q mixed with an overpowered damage boost. I'm torn on this one. On one hand, you have a good auto attack build because of this. The steroid will help during laning and duels. On the other hand, flat max attack speed and again, Cooldowns. The reason why Tristana's kit works so well is because her Q is additive WHILE reducing cooldowns with her E. That, and because she's ranged. IDK. Need to think more about this.

          E - Smell Gold. Warwick's E with a huge AoE slow? AND gold boost??? That's... well, overpowered would be an understatement...

          R - Down Under. Basically a Zhonya's with Vladmir's W underground mechanic. Good in theory, but having up to 40 seconds of sitting there on your ass won't do your team any good. Yes you use your Q to get out but honestly this ability is just a faster way of using your Q, which isn't exactly an ability/buff.

          One last gripe about his abilities: Absolutely none of them seem to scale off of anything. Not damage, resistance, health/mana, distance, nothing. If you want a viable champion, you need scaling.

So that's my (very long) two cents. I'd actually add more if I wanted to, but having a wall of text like this seems good enough as it is without any more input. No matter how long it is, this is still just one feedback. Other knowledgeable inputs would be beneficial, but I don't think you'll be getting much of those here, even less so of informational ones. Prime example being:

My opinion is that LoL sucks, lel.

On a more serious note this looks like something you put a lot of time and effort into and the character seems fun. I have played LoL, but very little so I don't know too much about the game mechanics and I love the art you made.

[Emperor_Quimby]

... What? Why's everyone looking at me? ... OK OK FINE I'll give my two cents...


I'll break the opinion down into a couple categories: Aesthetics (art, ingame model/animations, skins, etc) and Mechanics (abilities/stats, gameplay, etc)


Aesthetics

          It's cool to see a lot of work put into this. Your art style is pretty distinct to the point where one of us would nail a drawing as "definitely your art". However what you provided... isn't enough, per se. Don't get me wrong, you've essentially drew out all the would-be animations and whatnot, but the details aren't there. What's on his back? Is it a bag of mining tools? Is it like a camping pack? Does he wear plain trousers? What kind of art style would it potentially have ingame?

          Speaking of ingame, how large will this character's model be? Will he be Teemo sized or Hecarim sized? He looks like some kind of mole, so I'd imagine not that big. As for his animations, again I like how you detailed how his abilities should look like. One small thing that gripes me is on his Q, why he digs with his hands when he has a perfectly good shovel in his pack. For his W, I could imagine seeing his weapon start glowing or, as your art portrays, showing him going berserk. It's the little things like these that make a character.

          Skins... Oh boy. One thing you could change is probably his title. Calling him a miner already reduces the skin potential he could have. You've already taken out a potential skin by the title alone. Instead, you could use something like say... Digger or Gold Enthusiast. See what I mean? Looking at the current League roster, there's hardly any champion that has their specific occupation in their title. Only few I see are ones like Yorick the Gravedigger, Draven the Glorious Executioner, Tristana the Yordle Gunner.
          Continuing on how little skin potential he has. Why do you think champions like Yorick, Trundle, Volibear, Zac, Pantheon or Leona have such small, selective skin pools? Mainly because their character concept alone isn't much to work with. Volibear is a fighting polar bear-esque creature. Not too much to work with there. Heck, 4 of his 5 skins are of him fighting in various armor. Same with Pantheon and Trundle. Just not a lot of skin variations possible. Even if some cool skin ideas are released, some just look terrible in practice.

Mechanics

This might be a long one, or short, depending on how much effort I put into this.

          Abilities... I mentioned before about how well drawn the abilities are, but let's talk about the abilities themselves. First off, Cooldowns. Some champion cooldowns are brutally long as it is, but 20+ seconds at level 1 for ANY ability? You're essentially going to turn him into a VERY passive laner and/or an auto-attack based champion. You need to give at least one of his abilities a small cooldown. Not one champion has 20+ second cooldowns for all of their abilities at level 1. Not One. Only champions I can see that comes close are Tristana and Master Yi, and they're both auto-attack based. Other champions like Blitzcrank and Thresh, even they have a sub 10 second cooldown ability. I can understand WHY you created such long cooldowns for this guy however. His toolkit is very... unique.
          Speaking of toolkit, holy f***ing crap is he both broken and underwhelming. Based damage, 27??? Yeah... Good luck trying to last hit with him. Karthus, who has almost no business autoattacking and has one of the lowest based damage level 1, has base of 45. I get the idea of him getting bonus gold and boosts from gold, but honestly, he's going to have to be a late game champion... I can't see him otherwise.
          Passive. The potential is there. I can see the inspiration coming from Thresh. Spoiler is for boring math.
[spoiler]Let's do the math. Basic Summoner's Rift starts with 475 gold (515 with masteries). That's 4.75 armor, but let's round up to make it easier. 5 armor at the start of the game, plus 20 from passive. Let's be nice and add runes and masteries. Basic tier 3 yellow runes give 9 armor. I'll add in 10 more armor from masteries assuming this champion is going defensive. In total, at level 1, he'll have 20+5+9+10 = 44 armor.

     Let's go with clothe+5pot strat, giving him 59 armor at level 1. Definitely a hefty amount. I'll also compare your champ with two other champs with different playstyle. Shen and Yasuo. One's a tank, the other is damage. If those two champs go the same route, all three will have more or less the same amount of armor at the start of the game. From here, IF the player is good at last hitting (which is still extremely difficult to achieve with this champ) and adding in Rift's Gold per 10, not including kills/assists, will make an average of 300 gold per minute. Ideally, at this rate, he'll have max passive at the 17 minute mark. No items, passive only will result in 94 armor at this time. By that time, champions will hit around level 10, 12 max. Shen, with no items, will have around 85. Yasuo with 79. Thing is, your champion is unreliable at best with his passive, so he might have around low 80's. What I'm trying to say is, other champions passively get more armor per level. Your champ makes you have to work for it pretty hard.[/spoiler]

TL;DR, if you're spot on and doing extremely well, you'd have maybe 10 more armor than a typical tank would by the time you get max stacks without buying items. However his passive is unreliable at best, meaning you'd have to put much more effort in maintaining that lead.

          Q - dig. Channel takes too long. Equivalent of Fiddlestick's ult channel time. An additional .5 second delay, even though "enemies cannot see where he pops up", is still too largely predictable to use effectively. 1.5 second channel gives the enemy player enough time to know what's happening and get to safe distance since the animation could very well give it away. As an escape tool, decent at best, but sounds typically unreliable. It's that 1.5 channeling that will get to you.

          W - Mad Mining. Basically Tristana's Q mixed with an overpowered damage boost. I'm torn on this one. On one hand, you have a good auto attack build because of this. The steroid will help during laning and duels. On the other hand, flat max attack speed and again, Cooldowns. The reason why Tristana's kit works so well is because her Q is additive WHILE reducing cooldowns with her E. That, and because she's ranged. IDK. Need to think more about this.

          E - Smell Gold. Warwick's E with a huge AoE slow? AND gold boost??? That's... well, overpowered would be an understatement...

          R - Down Under. Basically a Zhonya's with Vladmir's W underground mechanic. Good in theory, but having up to 40 seconds of sitting there on your ass won't do your team any good. Yes you use your Q to get out but honestly this ability is just a faster way of using your Q, which isn't exactly an ability/buff.

          One last gripe about his abilities: Absolutely none of them seem to scale off of anything. Not damage, resistance, health/mana, distance, nothing. If you want a viable champion, you need scaling.

So that's my (very long) two cents. I'd actually add more if I wanted to, but having a wall of text like this seems good enough as it is without any more input. No matter how long it is, this is still just one feedback. Other knowledgeable inputs would be beneficial, but I don't think you'll be getting much of those here, even less so of informational ones. Prime example being:

My opinion is that LoL sucks, lel.

On a more serious note this looks like something you put a lot of time and effort into and the character seems fun. I have played LoL, but very little so I don't know too much about the game mechanics and I love the art you made.

Thank you Jay

Aesthetics:

The point of the drawings was to get a picture of how the champion would look like and making the discussion a little less boring looking. I have no intense what so ever to say this is the final model of Malmer, I don't have the tools to do that. How big, how tall, skins and so, I let the programmers do. I think skins were a stupid idea anyway, but I could see a Western Gold digger, industrial worker, pirate treasure digger or a construction worker where is pickaxe is switched out with a drill, just thinking of some straight away. But I am going to take like Lunamoon, who came up with the concept of Gnar only using drawings of crayons, and just show the ground idea of how he should look like.

Mechanices:

Now this is something I can use! Excellent seeing some mistakes too.
Basic will be fixed, atleast.
Cooldowns will stay, they will get lower by the levels and cooldown reduction can be bought with the insane amounts of money he will earn, making him, as you guessed, a late game champ.

Q – Dig: Im glad you find it descent as an escape tool, cause that was the basic thought of it. The reason for enemy not seeing you when you use it to gank or ambush is you're hiding behind a bush. It should only be used as escape, gank, first strike on monsters, ambush and in teamfight clusterfucks where nobody would see it.

W – Mad Minning: Now why didn't you say Udyr's Q or Warwick's W here? Oh well, the cooldown could be lowered, but it's already more down than warwick's W, wouldn't that be broken too?

E – Smelling gold:  Well good thing he isn't Warwick then, who's passive deals bonus magic damage, heals him which goes with all his abilities, don't get me started on his ult.

Now if I lower the cooldowns, he would be broke, he has to do with his basic attack and his tankiness until he has his abilities ready again. 

Funny thing though, people apparently likes to compare new things with known things. I showed this to a friend of mine who played dota, and he compared it to a lot of Dota heros. An example would be you seeing E as one of warwick's abilities, and you then thought it out as Warwick with this ability, making him overpowered, yes. But I thought it was a mole, who single out his targets with E and uses his W to get some damage done, no life steal, no bonus magic damage, no stun or channelling time, just fast basic attacks. I don't know either if you think this champion is overpowered or underpowered, because you say something is and something isn't, wouldn't that together just add up then?

[Jaysers]

W – Mad Minning: Now why didn't you say Udyr's Q or Warwick's W here? Oh well, the cooldown could be lowered, but it's already more down than warwick's W, wouldn't that be broken too?

I'll be honest, I compared Tristana because I'm most familiar with her abilities and that as the first thing I thought of. As I stated before, it's still a strong power. With that, he might not even need to build any attack speed item.

E – Smelling gold:  Well good thing he isn't Warwick then, who's passive deals bonus magic damage, heals him which goes with all his abilities, don't get me started on his ult.

I should clarify. You're essentially taking the basis of Warwick's E, which reveals enemies in a large radius. Not only that, but you're crowd-controlling them to be 20% slowed? You're telling me that a huge AoE REVEALING SLOW is balanced compared to Warwick's E. Yes, Warwick's E reveals enemy locations AND makes him go faster chasing after them. However, it has a condition which is when the target(s) is/are under 50% health.
Your ability makes it so that not only does it simply reveal enemy locations without penalty (yes there's the 2000 range limit but it's really not a valid condition) for an indefinite amount of time until out of range, but it also SLOWS them for no valid reason. Not JUST a slow, but he also receives a 90% MOVEMENT SPEED BOOST. 90%. Let that sink in. Warwick gets 40% speed boost which is ridiculous enough as it is, Udyr is up to 35%, and you want 90%?

Funny thing though, people apparently likes to compare new things with known things. I showed this to a friend of mine who played dota, and he compared it to a lot of Dota heros. An example would be you seeing E as one of warwick's abilities, and you then thought it out as Warwick with this ability, making him overpowered, yes. But I thought it was a mole, who single out his targets with E and uses his W to get some damage done, no life steal, no bonus magic damage, no stun or channelling time, just fast basic attacks. I don't know either if you think this champion is overpowered or underpowered, because you say something is and something isn't, wouldn't that together just add up then?

You can't create an ability that is nearly similar is all aspects with something that exists and call it "new". Regarding overpowered/underpowered, I really can't explain it well. I'm not calling the champion overpowered/underpowered, I'm saying the one ability might be.

It's my pleasure to help out. I'm obviously not the best player or the most knowledgeable one, but it's fun to do something like this.

[Emperor_Quimby]

W – Mad Minning: Now why didn't you say Udyr's Q or Warwick's W here? Oh well, the cooldown could be lowered, but it's already more down than warwick's W, wouldn't that be broken too?

I'll be honest, I compared Tristana because I'm most familiar with her abilities and that as the first thing I thought of. As I stated before, it's still a strong power. With that, he might not even need to build any attack speed item.

E – Smelling gold:  Well good thing he isn't Warwick then, who's passive deals bonus magic damage, heals him which goes with all his abilities, don't get me started on his ult.

I should clarify. You're essentially taking the basis of Warwick's E, which reveals enemies in a large radius. Not only that, but you're crowd-controlling them to be 20% slowed? You're telling me that a huge AoE REVEALING SLOW is balanced compared to Warwick's E. Yes, Warwick's E reveals enemy locations AND makes him go faster chasing after them. However, it has a condition which is when the target(s) is/are under 50% health.
Your ability makes it so that not only does it simply reveal enemy locations without penalty (yes there's the 2000 range limit but it's really not a valid condition) for an indefinite amount of time until out of range, but it also SLOWS them for no valid reason. Not JUST a slow, but he also receives a 90% MOVEMENT SPEED BOOST. 90%. Let that sink in. Warwick gets 40% speed boost which is ridiculous enough as it is, Udyr is up to 35%, and you want 90%?

Funny thing though, people apparently likes to compare new things with known things. I showed this to a friend of mine who played dota, and he compared it to a lot of Dota heros. An example would be you seeing E as one of warwick's abilities, and you then thought it out as Warwick with this ability, making him overpowered, yes. But I thought it was a mole, who single out his targets with E and uses his W to get some damage done, no life steal, no bonus magic damage, no stun or channelling time, just fast basic attacks. I don't know either if you think this champion is overpowered or underpowered, because you say something is and something isn't, wouldn't that together just add up then?

You can't create an ability that is nearly similar is all aspects with something that exists and call it "new". Regarding overpowered/underpowered, I really can't explain it well. I'm not calling the champion overpowered/underpowered, I'm saying the one ability might be.

It's my pleasure to help out. I'm obviously not the best player or the most knowledgeable one, but it's fun to do something like this.

Yeah, I imagined he would go damage items, since he had so low basic which I now have fixed. Also isn't the limit 2.5 attack speed? then yeah, attack speed items would't be main, but there is still 0.5 to go.

Nobody said that E will reveal the enemy, beside speed is all it gives, because a ranged champion would easily take Malmer down, slow him, make them get out of Malmer's sight range, and then go 2000 range away from him (the length of the first mid tower to the mid second) which breaks this ability. A caitlyn snap trap, Braum passive, Morgana's W, sona's ult, any ranged 1.5 stuns would do it.

[Emperor_Quimby]

REWORKED VERSION:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/PZe0uXnO-champion-suggestion-malmer-the-mantle-miner-reworked

[Saracalia]

Quim, not to be rude or anything about LoL, but I find that LoL is just getting worse with the concept of the game. Only because old champions are now worthless to use while new champions are brought out to be way more OP, and the game is way too easy still.

[Jaysers]

Only because old champions are now worthless to use while new champions are brought out to be way more OP, and the game is way too easy still.

Annie is still considered one of the most dangerous supports and still crushes mid laners in the lower leagues.
Garen is still considered one of the, if not THE ONLY, perfect counter to Riven players, and is often played in solo queue, regardless of elo.
Riven is still considered to be one of the most dangerous champions in the game despite the multiple damaging nerfs to her playstyle in past patches.
Viktor is one of the top banned champions in ranked.
Nidalee is the #1 banned champion.

All of the named champions were released before 2012.

Tahm Kench, the most recently released champion, is hardly getting any plays due to the fact that he's just not that good.
Ekko, yes this one I'll agree seems to be pretty OP when he was released. He's getting fixes when he does.
Bard. Do I really need to talk about him? He has potential.
Yasuo. Pretty dangerous, hard to play. Even harder to play correctly.

I'm not even sure why I'm trying to justify the champions to you when you clearly have an adamant viewpoint on the game itself. If you want to critique the game, then that's fine and your opinion will be justifiable. How are old champions worthless? Which ones? What might they need to be improved? Which new champion is OP? How should that champion be changed? In what aspect of the game does it make it still too easy? Does that correlate to how new players will see the game?

Otherwise there's no need to simply state that the game is "just getting worse".

[Emperor_Quimby]

Quim, not to be rude or anything about LoL, but I find that LoL is just getting worse with the concept of the game. Only because old champions are now worthless to use while new champions are brought out to be way more OP, and the game is way too easy still.

Way to OP? Are you familiar with Dota 2? You can literally count as two players in data 2 so overpowered every hero is in Dota, there is only few overpowered champions in League of Legends, which in my mind is broke as fuck, but I don't blame them, because when you add new champions all the time, it is hard to balance the whole thing.

[Emperor_Quimby]

What Jaysers said

Pretty much agree with Jay

Tahm Kench is normal good as everyone I think, I would place him with Braum if it wasn't for Braum's ult.
I don't know why people fear Ekko, a 1.5 stun is nearly good enough to take him down.
Bard is only good if they whole team is on Skype together.
Of all these champs Yasuo would be the only one of them, I would consider OP, but as Jay said, he is hard to play.

As said I like Dota2 more than LoL but I really don't think LoL is getting worse, like I'm finally glad that they made champions like Bard and Tahm who can control the position of their team mates (Bard's R, and Tahm's Devour)

BTW making new champion idea, this time with total unique abilites, I challenge Jay to find any Champion which looks like him.

[Emperor_Quimby]

Here it is, unique champion idea:

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/UKE4pA97-snatch-the-vexing-spectre

[Spark]

That thing doesn't seem to fit the art style of League, and also seems a little op xD