Survival Server Proposal

[pusur44017]

(The server also includes a narrative, the gods every now and then send them on quests, ask them to build them a temple, and so on... as a reward, buildings or other things may appear)

Your idea has the same problems as drakons, this will escalate, create friction and so on, and it will to some degree require ontime a particular time of day. What is interesting, however, is what I quoted above. To help delay endgame to the point where via a combination of big goals and some kind of increased resistance, we archive a meaningful game. Perhaps we could entrust Darth, or some volunteer that should not be part of the actual players to make some kind of story line, where perhaps some part of our build will get blown up, or a gang of master thieves will steal a healthy amount of our goods, but also quests that will enable us to earn something we greatly need. Some of this might require more preparation than others, a quest might need some buildings and doing this all the time can be tiring, but the trick for the person(s) doing this is to variate on low preparation events and high.

How does this sound?

-pusur

[Krawkyz]

Well, I can only go with the tradition argument here:

In essence, a lot of proposed solutions require heavily on plugins to enforce the system. I feel any "factions" servers will only cause more PvP and more drama, etc. Other proposed ideas cannot be enforced in a public server (from my standpoint). While we should definitely be proposing ideas, we should also propose the way to incorporate those ideas.

I see modded servers being proposed, and I say: there are extensive reasons why mods are not an option:
1. Modded Servers tend to be very unstable. Tekkit crashed extremely frequently and required constant upkeep.
2. Modded Servers alienate the playerbase. People who don't want mods/to download them are fresh out of luck, while vanilla/close to vanilla often includes everyone.
3. Modded Servers have a small shelf-life. Endgame is relatively easy to reach in most modded servers, especially due to the exploit-filled experiences (Mystcraft made tekkit a breeze).

I also dislike the argument of delaying endgame in any fashion. People don't play Minecraft similar to Terraria, where your goal is to get the best gear as possible. People play Minecraft to create what they want: Thor is building a castle; thrash and I are building farms and forts. Others are pushed to creative since the griefing nature of survival server causes their builds to be destroyed (e.g. Noku).

Storylines were proposed last survival, and just won't work. It's impossible to enforce.

Following with Glenn's comment, instead of focusing on the Gods server, why not shape ours on another successful server, HermitCraft? They are a vanilla server that operates peacefully: griefing and raiding are forbidden. We don't usually use vanilla, so we can modify that a bit with our current plugins (though HorseCraftables seems to be a bit superfluous).

[Hazestorm15]

I also dislike the argument of delaying endgame in any fashion. People don't play Minecraft similar to Terraria, where your goal is to get the best gear as possible. People play Minecraft to create what they want: Thor is building a castle; thrash and I are building farms and forts. Others are pushed to creative since the griefing nature of survival server causes their builds to be destroyed (e.g. Noku).

I'd agree with Kraw on the endgame argument. Minecraft was create for building anything and everything you want to build. The point of endgame in Minecraft in 1.9 is almost impossible at this point because with the new update you can now refight the dragon, Find endless amount of elytra. Endgame is almost impossible with the amount of times anything can be refought or found. So endgame really cant be argued atm.
I feel like having a giant group survival server could work for our server. It worked for many youtuber groups, one i like to use is the MindCrack group they all build and work together have fun and play as a team, not hiding from people and fighting all the time like we did last server. Im not saying I was innocent last survival I did start alot of problem and i dont want that again for this server. I believe if we do make this survival as a giant groupanother way of "spicing" that up are pranks, or giant group builds and stuff like that.

[Thrash393]

why not shape ours on another successful server, HermitCraft? They are a vanilla server that operates peacefully: griefing and raiding are forbidden. We don't usually use vanilla, so we can modify that a bit with our current plugins

Instead of extending the shelf life of survival with dungeons I think adding more player interaction (without pvp) is a easy way to continue getting people interested with another pier 17 shopping area or ideas like simple fun pranks to poke fun at one another, for example maybe making a pixel art of sherk in the walls of our query.

[Glenn]

To clarify my thoughts a little further:

I also dislike the argument of delaying endgame in any fashion.

I also don't think the pacing of the game should be adjusted, I just think it'd be good to find a way to keep people interested after they achieve what I'd call "endgame"

The point of endgame in Minecraft in 1.9 is almost impossible at this point because with the new update you can now refight the dragon, Find endless amount of elytra. Endgame is almost impossible with the amount of times anything can be refought or found. So endgame really cant be argued atm.

I disagree, Once you have beaten every boss and are able to obtain any item, that is in my eyes "endgame".

Sure, there are still a lot of things you can do, like create all kinds of buildings and beat the bosses again, but at that point players will start to lose interest because this "endgame" is achieved.

What I'm aiming for here, is to simply find a way to keep players engaged after "endgame" is achieved, something that gives everyone a new goal to work towards (no-one should be forced to complete this goal, if they prefer to do something else, that's all fair and square as well!).

[Hazestorm15]

I disagree, Once you have beaten every boss and are able to obtain any item, that is in my eyes "endgame".

Sure, there are still a lot of things you can do, like create all kinds of buildings and beat the bosses again, but at that point players will start to lose interest because this "endgame" is achieved.

What I'm aiming for here, is to simply find a way to keep players engaged after "endgame" is achieved, something that gives everyone a new goal to work towards (no-one should be forced to complete this goal, if they prefer to do something else, that's all fair and square as well!).

but if we modd survival it would/could end up like another type of tekkit server in my eyes. Like end game really isn't what this topic was about it was trying to go back to how things were and hopefully work together as a group. Or thats just in my eyes

[Glenn]

but if we modd survival it would/could end up like another type of tekkit server in my eyes. Like end game really isn't what this topic was about it was trying to go back to how things were and hopefully work together as a group. Or thats just in my eyes

Oh, I'm not voting for a modded server at all, Drakon's the only person who's expressed to be interested in that so far.

This thread started with Kraw announcing he was wanted to change the server's ideology. The thread then continued to look for solutions to switch up the survival server, since

our servers seem to dwindle in number

[pusur44017]

What I'm aiming for here, is to simply find a way to keep players engaged after "endgame" is achieved, something that gives everyone a new goal to work towards (no-one should be forced to complete this goal, if they prefer to do something else, that's all fair and square as well!).

This is what I am trying to do with trying to extend endgame, but people doesn't want that, which is fine.

To be clear this is my idea:

1. Large group working towards a goal that includes some kind of grand build. We have a lot of good builders and good workers this should work well
2. As people does not want an extension of the game, no game altering plugins required.
3. In order to see if this works, the optimal situation would be a reset, but if we go for this, we need to discuss a lot of things first, and even then, nobody is saying we will have an immediate shut down of the current map.
4. This will be a PvE environment.
5. We need a large group for this to work successfully so we should encourage everyone to join the group. If we go for this we need ideas on how to make incentives for this!
6. Endgame is something that we will reach no matter what we do. This idea makes it so that we can reset and continue as we feel like it.

We might need some special rules, and we need to set goals. This idea is sort of structured now. Nothing is set in stone and input is very welcome, but could people please comment if this is something they would like to try out? I'm not saying end all ideas, but if we can get people to say, we want to try this, we can end one line of discussion and continue.

Kraw, you advocate for a very standard server. What is it exactly you would like? Could you elaborate?

-pusur
   

[Krawkyz]

My Proposal:
1. No Griefing or Raiding allowed
2. Group how you wish
3. Almost no game-altering Plugins (Required Plugins like CoreProtect, etc)
4. PvP allowed if both parties consent
6. Extremely large gap between resets

This structure is similar to what we had previously before the current system was implemented.

[Drakon]

5. Kraw is god of server and nobody can object.

[pusur44017]

My Proposal:
1. No Griefing or Raiding allowed
2. Group how you wish
3. Almost no game-altering Plugins (Required Plugins like CoreProtect, etc)
4. PvP allowed if both parties consent
6. Extremely large gap between resets

This structure is similar to what we had previously before the current system was implemented.

I feel like going back to this we'll be going in circles. There is a reason we turned to PvP. I could not find the original post, but I found an old one (http://www.insomniacservers.com/index.php/topic,1624.0.html) discussing possible ideas and in essence what is our problem is what butler expressed there:

"The issue is that we have nothing to fight, except each other. And if we fight each other, we fight too hard and destroy everything (and generally ruin the fun).

What we need is a challenge that will make the game exceptionally tough, and force the players to band together to survive."

People does not want anything very game altering. I think if done correctly my idea can make tough goals that the whole server should work together to solve.

-pusur

[Krawkyz]

I feel like going back to this we'll be going in circles. There is a reason we turned to PvP. I could not find the original post, but I found an old one (http://www.insomniacservers.com/index.php/topic,1624.0.html) discussing possible ideas and in essence what is our problem is what butler expressed there:

People did need a break from the PvE environment, but I feel after this amount of time, going back to the similar setup would be fine.

[Butlerbandit]

I agree with the switch from PVP to PVE; we've all reached a point where we've realized that working together is much more productive than fighting each other, and the continued existence of the PVP element does nothing but add unnecessary tension.

Personally I like what Pusur is proposing, as it seems to be pretty much what Kraw is proposing, plus server wide goals to keep people interested and give us all something to work on together. Shouldn't even require a restart if implemented correctly.

[Krawkyz]

To me it seems like there are few dissenters. I believe we should, at the least, implement a peaceful PvE system immediately, and depending on the polls of server-wide goals, implement those at a later time.

[bren4q]

TL;DR - give more specifics on plugins and setup when suggesting your preference

What does a peaceful PvE system look like? What does a modified end game look like? What plugins can achieve this, if any? What settings need to be changed on the current setup to achieve what is being proposed?

It becomes easier to visualise what the game will be like if you try to give some specifics and then fine tune them as feedback comes in. The devil is in the detail.

Griefing and killing may not be allowed for PvE, but making something against the rules does not stop it. If people can do something, then eventually someone will, and this is what causes drama. It is far better to block actions at a server level and avoid having to deal with rule-breakers and all the drama that creates.


My effort at a more PvE focused server:
- Nuke economy. Remove it completely and all plugins that generate money like MobRewards and GlobalMarket.
- Remove all server shops
- Add an item trading plugin. E.g. https://www.spigotmc.org/resources/weetrade-trading-plugin-1-8-x.6046/
- Keep Protection Stones system for grief protection but ramp it up. Give everyone a set amount of free stones, e.g. 5. All big ones. Apply an upper limit to how many each player can place, e.g. 5 per person.
- Disable PVP for the entire world. Allow PVP in specific parts only, like an arena or something.

"PVP is disabled but someone poured a lava bucket on me!"
- Solution: Make players invincible everywhere.
"But if you can't die, its not PvE."
- Solution: Report it to an admin.
"I didn't see who did it and there is no evidence."
- Solution: Prevent people using lava buckets.
"No lava? That sucks! I need lava for my mountain fortress build!"
- Solution: Well fuck.

This idea already has holes in it. That's Minecraft. It is impossible to achieve balance, avoid drama and play it the way you want to.


While a more PvE focused system could minimise clashes between people, it could also make it lot more boring. Drama might be the immediate reason that previous players left, but if they were enjoying the game enough they might have stuck it out. If someone left and continued playing Minecraft somewhere else, then fine, the drama was a major factor. But if they stopped playing Minecraft completely then most likely they had their fill of the game and a bit of drama was just the tipping point.
So a change now might not improve anything.