Survival Server Proposal

[Krawkyz]

As our servers seem to dwindle in number, I have noted that the survival server still can create some drama within the community, and for good reason, in my opinion. The system is inevitably broken, promoting hostility and secrecy rather than communication and helpfulness, keeping many players from wanting to play (there are many who have spoken out about this, as well as those who remain quiet).
Currently, there's only one group really playing on the Survival Server, mine. All the others have simply dwindled, as they feel there's no real reason to play since the server is competitive, and we're, bluntly, advanced already, having gotten an elytra in a day, showing off constantly. Humility was never given from us, and this likely drove a lot of the playerbase away.

That's why I propose a solution: let's change the survival server's ideology. This doesn't require a complete restart of the server again, merely a change of focus:

Firstly, no griefing or raiding allowed. This is at the discretion of the moderators i.e. a dirt hut being torn down for a palace may not be considered griefing. This is a major change from what we currently do, and would remove the competition that (in my opinion) was abhorred by a lot of our members. If we really need ProtectionStones, have a Moderator give the protected area to the person. We shouldn't need them.

Second, remove the economy entirely. Honestly, there's no need for this. I feel as if the shops add some sort of non-vanilla aspect to the game. And it's entirely exploitable.

In essence, the 1.9 Survival Server has been quite peaceful (albeit only because thrash and I are regular contenders, and we've vowed to try to avoid conflict as much as possible). I believe the rules should reflect our change in behavior. In the past, we were chaotic and wanted to try it out. There were many problems, which likely led to the loss of members due to all the drama presented. We shouldn't have a mirror image of our last survival world. Instead, I believe we should make the server anti-griefing and anti-raiding, promoting building ability and cooperation.

[pusur44017]

This is collectively is what made many stop playing. I commend you for actually using the forums, and for being able to see this yourself.

I feel what that we have already "tried and tested" the PvE method, and perhaps we should search for other possibilities. Off the top of my head, perhaps there is some kind of PvE element we can install in the form of a mod or plugin that will keep the game "suppressed" so that high-level items aren't that easily obtainable, perhaps we could combine this with the whole server being one group, working towards the same goal. Perhaps the goal should be something like building something grand, such as a castle that will house all the members or something similar, a dwarf city comes to mind. When endgame is reached, we save the map and start again. Before we start anew, we have a discussion about making goals for ourself.

The Technic team have also made a mod pack named Blightfall, where you are one of 6 (?) teams that work to rescue a ruined planet. Perhaps this is something we can do?

You purpose solutions that you say does not require a reset of survival, I think this is unavoidable and I think we need to think new. I purpose ideas loosely so that we can discuss, but please remember to write any discussion that happens on TS here so that I and others that are not on TS can participate.

-pusur

[Jahona]

You purpose solutions that you say does not require a reset of survival, I think this is unavoidable and I think we need to think new. I purpose ideas loosely so that we can discuss, but please remember to write any discussion that happens on TS here so that I and others that are not on TS can participate.
-pusur

Or at least paraphrase or notations.

One thing talking with Krawkyz is that this has the potential to be a third server more private than the public survival server.  If it's different enough from survival, we have the hosting space to make it so.

[Drakon]

This change is definitely needed, because I joined in the server about 6 hours late, so I haven't even needed to make a crafting table yet. I got an Elytra before anything else, because that's just what people where doing when I got on. When everyone was doing everything while I was off, I always felt left out. Which entirely could be my fault, and it probably is.

[Krawkyz]

I don't believe in any fashion modded servers are the way to go: we've never really had a strong modding-focused community. Tekkit died rather quickly.

So far, I really haven't seen any discussion on the ideas presented, other than the "tried and tested" comment. On that note, the server did well in a PvE environment, relative to the current system.
I believe it makes sense to switch it back to that system of PvE, since: one, a good amount of our players seem to want to remove the raiding/pvp aspect of survival, and, two, like you said, it worked, fixing what isn't broken.

However, I personally would not like a restart. [spoiler]If a large amount really feel it's necessary, perhaps make a private vanilla whitelist server for those who want to continue on this current map, and a public one for those who want to start anew (likely without thrash or I in this sense).[/spoiler]

Is anybody objecting to this change, though? Do we think we should have a more PvE oriented server? What are people's ideas?

[pusur44017]

I think the reason tekkit dies out quickly is because of how fast you reach endgame.

I wouldn't mind a PvE server, however I think we need a "policy" of sorts for when we reach endgame, where we dictate when to reset the map. I also think we should otherwise discuss how we do this before executing the plan, what aspects to remove or add, and maybe some new rules?

I still stay strong on resetting the map because of the position we have reached.
You mentioned the economy being exploitative. I agree on this, perhaps a way to level this out is to not have any admin shops. That way all economy is based on the players. Removing the money is no point because you will just trade with items instead

We need discussion on this, me and Kraw cannot be the only ones with input on how we are going to do this.

I still feel we should keep open to a new game mechanic. The reason we have PvP is because PvE dwindled, but perhaps we should just have reset the map, I don't know, but this is why I said "tried and tested". If we rule out mods, my idea is the whole server being forced to be one group, and before we start we discuss what we want to archive and one of them has to be one big build that has to house all the players and what you need on a survival play. and we reset when we have archived the goals. This shouldn't require any special set up other than making our own objectives and resetting the map.

-pusur

[Jahona]

*cough* hardcore *cough*

[Drakon]

I play on survival to play minecraft with you guys, so alienating even a single one of you kinda gets rid of the point for me.

Kraw and Thrash (probably some more), wouldn't play on a server restart. Honestly, They will be ahead of the game by miles unless we restart, and provide more content (modded survival). Even if both of them did play on a server restart they would probably still be rocketing ahead of everybody.

It has been aggressively exclaimed that a majority of people would not play on modded survival. Modded survival may not be stable, but everyone knows how much fun tekkit was. Most people wouldn't want to play it until they get bored of minecraft, and by then they might be burned out of minecraft. My personal vote goes to modded survival.

[Glenn]

It's been a very long time since I played on the survival server, but I thought I'd share my thoughts on this anyways.

I for one am excited to hear that the survival server might become a less competitive, and more peaceful place. As for other changes... I don't think modded minecraft is the way to go, and that's coming from someone who loves modded minecraft. When you change the survival server to a modded server, you have the potential to alienate players who aren't... let's call it "Hardcore Insomniac Members", people who get on every now and then and just want to play on a server with some other people on it. Not only that, but certain players may just dislike modded minecraft, and not want to join that server, which might even stop part of the... (I need a better name for it) "Hardcore Insomniac Members" of playing in the survival server.

Another debate here was the PvE/PvP debate, I feel like it should still be PvP, but in a peaceful way... hell, if there's an argument, instead of arguing and creating drama, just keep calm and call an admin, and if you really want to fight, settle it in a gladiatorial fight for all I care (And if drama and arguing makes it's comeback, we can always turn PvP off)

the whole server being one group, working towards the same goal. Perhaps the goal should be something like building something grand, such as a castle that will house all the members or something similar, a dwarf city comes to mind.

I personally like the idea of the entire server working towards a certain goal a lot, building a big community ....thing/building, a city or castle for example, but I'm sure there are many more possibilities!
As a side-note, I don't believe the entire server should be considered 1 group, there can still be some competitiveness between groups of players, but in a less aggressive manner compared to the past. Perhaps more in a creative manner similar to the build-offs, where the person who's contribution is considered the most valuable could get a "trophy" to hang on their wall or something, hell, maybe even a statue or title

When endgame is reached, we save the map and start again. Before we start anew, we have a discussion about making goals for ourself.

I don't think the map needs to be restarted for this to happen, but at some point the goals could be changed up.

Here's another idea; How about Player-created dungeons? Every player gets to create a dungeon which the other players can attempt to beat, this could include Parkour, Monsters, Puzzles, whatever else you can think up!

That's about it for my thoughts on this discussion, so what do ya think?

[Drakon]

Perhaps more in a creative manner similar to the build-offs, where the person who's contribution is considered the most valuable could get a "trophy" to hang on their wall or something, hell, maybe even a statue or title

Here's another idea; How about Player-created dungeons? Every player gets to create a dungeon which the other players can attempt to beat, this could include Parkour, Monsters, Puzzles, whatever else you can think up!

Not to be rude, but you are just describing creative. A build-off in survival just end up being a competition of resources. player-created dungeons, with parkour, monsters, and puzzles require things that are not accessible in survival.

Don't get me wrong modded survival wouldn't replace regular survival.

This has the potential to be a third server more private than the public survival server.  If it's different enough from survival, we have the hosting space to make it so.

[Glenn]

A build-off in survival just end up being a competition of resources.

Hey, wait a minute! I never said it'd be a build-off!

To add some kind of competitiveness, you could award some kind of medal similarly to the build-offs, but that's completely next to the point here, the main goal would be working together and creating something awesome!

player-created dungeons, with parkour, monsters, and puzzles require things that are not accessible in survival.

Not necessarily, I'm sure you could make an interesting dungeon or whatever you'd want to call it without the need of creative mode, it just requires you to be creative yourself!

Don't get me wrong modded survival wouldn't replace regular survival.

This has the potential to be a third server more private than the public survival server.  If it's different enough from survival, we have the hosting space to make it so.

So then you'd split the community in two, right? I'd say that's pretty counter-productive.

you are just describing creative

Okay, here's the problem: the endgame of basic survival minecraft is boring, you do everything there is to do, and that's it, the end, server dies out. So, the point here (in my eyes) is to find/create a new endgame, to find a way to keep the servers populated, to keep the community engaged, and yes, a modded server could keep a select few interested for a select period of time, but that's not a solution I want to settle with! I want to find a way to keep as many people as possible engaged for as long as possible, which is why I think creating something big together might be a good idea!

(The Dungeon idea was more of a sidenote that could be fun by the way, not an actual solution to the problem at hand)

[Drakon]

Another idea I had is that possibly we could do small teams, you already have three teams of two (Kraw + Thrash, Sif + Butler, Pusur + Bren), their are obviously more in their groups, but they are pretty much the leaders of those groups.  We could keep the competitive aspect by making these 'group leaders' into 'clan leaders' and making the survival map a battleground over who can conquer the others.  Making and capturing forts, possibly using Glenn's dungeon idea. We could have the main bases of each 'clan' protected so that way no one is ever fully out of the game.  If there were possibly a plugin that keeps track of deaths that can be reset we can use that as a way to tell whether a battle is over (aka. first team to 10 deaths loses).  When not in battle the clans would trade with each other for resources, and if you get rid of the currency system then would only trade goods.

All of the people that aren't leaders could get recruited by the clans as subordinates to help fight battles. Possibly they could go independent and have non-protected main bases, so when their base gets captured they become part of the clan that destroyed their fort.

[Charon]

I like the concept.

[pusur44017]

As a side-note, I don't believe the entire server should be considered 1 group, there can still be some competitiveness between groups of players, but in a less aggressive manner compared to the past. Perhaps more in a creative manner similar to the build-offs, where the person who's contribution is considered the most valuable could get a "trophy" to hang on their wall or something, hell, maybe even a statue or title

The part about needing some other element than building is true, but I don't think you can control competitiveness, therefore PvE is a good alternative in my mind. I think we should look towards a plugin not mod that isn't too intrusive and will add more "E". My thought with the one big group is that I think we will turn out great builds every so often that we can put on youtube/PMC, whatever to generate publicity about us and perhaps if it is successful, this new concept we created.

Also, Beginning -> endgame = Awesome build to advertize, and then New beginning -> endgame = New awesome build to advertize

Endgame being finished our goals. To some degree we can also dictate difficulty here.

Another idea I had is that possibly we could do small teams

Well, Bren is out, and I don't like this type of game. I feel this is the opposite direction of what we want, and it requires me to be on a said time, and I can't commit to that. The problem with this type of game is that we all know each other so it will create friction, there is no "not personal".

You also raise concerns that even if kraw and thrash agree to resetting the server, they will soon be ahead of everybody. My solution solves this because any work they put in benefits everybody.

I like the concept.

Which??

Very good discussion on this now.

I don't know if this will work, but I do think it's worth finding out. If this is something people want we need to discuss some rules, but first things first, is this something a fair deal of people would like to try to do?

-pusur

[Glenn]

Although I do like the sound of Drakon's idea, it probably won't work too well, firstly it requires many players to be on at the same time, which may not happen too often. Secondly, this is probably hard to set up (and maintain). And lastly this'd possibly create more Drama which, as pusur noted, is counterproductive!

it requires me to be on a said time, and I can't commit to that.

On a personal note I agree here, neither I, not pusur or other non-Americans will be on at the times these battles would happen, which alienates part of the community!

In a way I do think there may be something to this idea though... I suppose no-one here has heard of "Mianite"?

It's a community server where a (fairly small) group of youtubers play on a server together and all choose to become part of a certain faction. There are three factions in this world, followers of Dianite (God of Evil), followers of Mianite (God of Good) and followers of Ianite (God of Ballance). The different factions tend to live peacefully together, but every now and then they plan pranks on eachother, these pranks are mostly fairly innocent and don't require too much work to be repaired (for example turning a bridge upside down), but the person who gets pranked takes revenge on the person who pranked him. Every now and then they organise trials when they believe someone went too far, and everyone (except the accused) gets to vote on whether or not the accused should be punished, if the answer is yes, then a penalty can be discussed. They also organise purges (almost) every weekend, in which players fight to the death with certain rules (for example, only wooden swords, no bow, no armor, no potions, no golden apples), the person who kills the most other players that purge wins it, and gains a trophy.

(The server also includes a narrative, the gods every now and then send them on quests, ask them to build them a temple, and so on... as a reward, buildings or other things may appear)

I'm not saying this is something we should/could implement, but perhaps we could take some inspiration from some of it's aspects!